Judge Review-Lisa Beaney Portrait theme

[Anonymous]

Does anyone else think that the Judge for the Portrait theme was very harsh in her judgements on Monday.I thought when she commented on some images she would then award 17-18 but after saying some good things about the image then said 15 or 16 marks (some as low as 13).Also felt as David has said, as it was Portrait, those with access to semi pro models, lighting etc had massive advantage and those who did not have this were pretty much dismissed by the judge. Perhaps the judging should have been done by grouping Portrait group and those with studio set up together and those who had to resort to ask family without lighting and without asking them to move furniture about for a photo shoot in another group.

[Peter TrumpParticipant]

I too thought LisA was extremely harsh on the preliminary group.

Whilst her comments were constructive from a professional view point marking was somewhat out of context, ie on several occasions could not find any particular fault yet still only gave a 15/16/17 mark.

Very few 18 & 19 on the evening.

 

[Stephen EverestParticipant]

As I wasn’t present at last nights portrait competition I can’t comment on the judge’s comments or marking regarding each of the entries.
What I would say is that for some time now a lot of judges that come to the club tend not to use the full range of marks available to them. Some judges give a very detailed critique of an entry giving the impression that these comments will then be reflected in their marks given. They then tend to use a marking range of just 15 to 20, or put another way you could say that they’re marking out of 5 only…..
I we’ll remember many years ago, one judge who came to the club and they did use the full range of marks available. This culminated in one advanced worker who received a mark of just 8 for their entry!! Ouch!

[Philip HollowayParticipant]

I wish judges would mark using the full range of 1-20. Most of the marks were 14 last night, which doesn’t really help separate people at the years end marks. I also wish that last night and all judges stuck with there comments during the evenings markings instead of commenting on a bad practice and down marking a photo and then totally ignoring a past comment on a different photo and giving flying marks to it. Every judge can I have their own personal opinions which is perfectly fine but stick to those opinions during the whole of the competition.

[Louise ClarkeParticipant]

I agree that those who have access to lighting and models were at a bit of an advantage.  I also felt her comments were constructive and helpful. Bit harsh on the preliminary group though :(.

[david eastleyParticipant]

I was not there on monday but could I make some general points about judging.

I am a lead trainer for new judges and we reccomend

– the critique must match the score

– for club class scores between 14 and 20 with 16 as a competent ( not good not bad ) image

– for advanced score between 10 and 20 with 15 as a competent image. We also say as many scores above 15 as below 15 and try to give as many 12’s as 20’s
I do give 10 from time to time and we recognise some of the long established judges do score too high.

There is a role for our club to play. Many clubs send guidance to judges explaining what they want and on the night we should clearly brief judges that we want 12 to 20 being used. If the judge gives to narrow a range or comments don’t match the words don’t invite them back and let SPA know.

We as photographers need to recognise that not all our images are great , we should only expect a 16, and its a bonus when we are one of the 4 or 5 that score above 18.

[John PetersKeymaster]

I agree that Lisa’s scoring was lower across the board than we are used to. From the outset of judging the Preliminary Group, I was conscious of the marks she was giving, so I paid extra attention to the critique versus the mark. I thought that for the larger part these were in step. I think the quality of Lisa’s judging is high, and she is one of the few judges who applies a wider range in her judging.

I think there was one fundamental flaw in the competition as structured which was choosing Portrait as the theme, then compounding this by asking a professional Portrait photographer to be the judge. It was probably foreseeable that there would be a greater gulf than is normally the case. I take full responsibility for the flaws in this competition, and for many members having a poor experience as this was entirely my idea and one that other committee members were unsure about.

The thinking behind the Portrait theme was that it would be good to be able to take ‘better’ Portraits of the people in our lives. Having Lisa run a members’ practical based around using available or a single light source was a part of the plan. With the benefit of hindsight, an in-depth ‘how-to’ lecture would have supported members new to Portraiture more.

[John PetersKeymaster]

Following last night’s competition, I spoke with Lisa about running another workshop/classroom lecture/competition however this time based on only ‘real’ people, i.e. how to take great portraits in your front room or garden or anywhere else that is NOT in a studio and does NOT involve a model.

The broad outline might include topics such as Focusing on the subject, Finding the right location, Poses, Candid Portraits, Capturing emotions and expressions, Choosing the right lens, Choosing the background, colour palette, Available Lighting, Single Light & Reflecting Light, Editing and post-processing, Shooting in RAW format.

To make setting this up worthwhile will require responses from a sufficient proportion of the club members. If there isn’t sufficient interest, we’ll drop the idea. 🙂

[David WaterhouseModerator]

Thanks for all the comments above – they are helpful in guiding future procedures and activities. David Eastley’s general points about judging are also worth reading! We did indicate to Lisa that we expected a range of 12 to 20 – she said that she once gave a mark of 8 out of 20 but happily we didn’t present any images that were that bad!

John should not feel he has to take sole responsibility for choosing Portrait as the theme – it was a team decision. Having a professional portrait photographer as the judge has plus and minus points: on balance, I feel that the positives outweighed the negatives. The last time we ran a (stand-alone) Portrait competition, I recall the judge ran out of new things to say after about half a dozen images! Lisa may have applied “professional” criteria to the images so her comments appear harsh but I suspect that even regular attenders of our Portrait group will have learned a lot. One of that group, who does regards himself as a “specialist”, scored 14 on one of his images.

I’ve only attended the Portrait group once, but booked myself on to a couple of free portrait-based workshops because the theme had been chosen. I fully appreciate that’s easier for me (as a retired old bloke) to do than it is for those who work but it has been an interesting learning experience which has confirmed that I’m not a portait photographer!

[Keith LeeModerator]

I thought Lisa Beaney’s judging on the whole was pretty fair and accurate especially as she is a professional portrait photographer and had a sound knowledge of what she was talking about. Her comments were succinct and to the point and didn’t waffle on like many judges who you could tell were struggling to find something to say.

I don’t think John should feel the need to apologise for inviting Lisa to be the judge, it makes sense to have someone who knows what they are talking about to give constructive criticism. I feel very disappointed when I feel a judge doesn’t like or understand a genre of photography and marks low accordingly. I agree that Lisa was a bit narrow with her band of scores, there was quite a high proportion of 14s and 15s but I have to say there weren’t that many worthy of a 20 either.

 

[Eddie LordParticipant]

I know of some judges who refuse to do themed competitions such as portraits, so on balance, I think Lisa did a fantastic job.

The decision to invite her to appraise our work was probably a good one, bearing in mind her professional qualifications. Her comments were first class imho and I learnt a lot from her attention to detail.

When I looked at the prints on arrival, I was racking my brains on how I would have commented and marked all those similar looking images. Although I found Lisa’s marking ‘unusual’ it was, I thought, consistent throughout the evening, which not all judges manage. It was almost as if she treated us all as if we were in one very large ability group.

Not all images were taken with expensive studio lights. Mine used a couple of flashguns (speed lights), a can of smoke, and a dressing up kit. The model was a friend of mine who volunteered to act the part. Add in a few hours of post processing in Capture One though.

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